My father came down to the cities a few weekends ago for a visit. I always enjoy when he comes down because we have some great theological and political discussions. He is one of the most intensely religious people I know. Our belief systems and political opinions are complete polar opposites. We will get into some heated arguments involving these subject.

My father is not your typical Christian. He is 100% against Sunday Christians, because he believes they have been deceived by Satan. He is very knowledgeable of the Word, and can repeat scriptures at the drop of the hat. He is a heavy dope smoker and is losing his memory so he can sometimes quote the same scriptures over and over again; which gets very annoying. He watches hours of evangelists on television finding various different ways to find out how they are not preaching what the Word really says. He will write letter after letter trying to show these churches the errors in their ways. He believes the seven letters referred to in Revelations is describing the major denominations out there. When he is not watching television preachers he is watching Fox News, and has some extreme political views as well with various different conspiracy theories, this also causes some heated debates.

On Saturday night he started to go off on his theory for why society has crumbled from within. He believes our downfall has to do when we threw God out of the schools and out of the government. He called us a Godless nation who has turned our backs on the Lord. Warning if we continue to turn our back on God; God will turn his back on us. I listened to his points of view as I always do. I would try to politely interject and give my views. Most of the times I do not bother because he refuses to let me finish a single thought. He is also completely unable to step out side of his belief system and look at things objectively.

It wasn’t until he brought up one of our major downfalls was our acceptance of homosexuality. He went on to say God hates the act, and compared our society to Sodom and Gomorrah. I immediately got filled with agitation, and could no longer hold my opinions back. I asked him why God would create a segment of the population he was predisposed to hate. He told me God does not hate the people he hates the act of homosexuality. I refrained my question asking him why God would create a segment of people who are predisposed to commit acts which he hates. His answer to me was people are not born gay; it is a learned behavior.

I had to scoff at this notion for the silliness it is. I tried to point out the existence of blatantly feminine men and obvious butch females. There is no way these are learned character traits. This has to be something these individuals are born with. We started to really get into it. He gave me the typical Sodom and Gomorrah references and said the famous quote “God made Adam and Eve; not Adam and Steve.”  

This is a great example of why I will never accept the existence of God into my life. The fact people can read a book which teaches them to love their fellow man, yet teaches intolerance over something as trivial as being gay is a complete joke. I do not understand why in this day and age we have had such an issue with gay people getting married. The fact we are still debating the don’t ask don’t tell policy in our military is a joke. I could understand his concern if homosexuals were running around ass raping straight men in the streets. This would cause huge issues and a concern to the public. The facts are these things do not happen in the real world. Gay people are not sexual deviants who are a risk to be free in our society. Our world will not be affected in any way if we allowed gay’s to get married. Gay people deserve the right to go die in unjust wars just as straight men do. These things are facts yet because a book has some references to this as being bad; it cause’s our society to tweak out over the subject. How can my fathers claim that God has been thrown out of the government be true when that very same government is making laws based on what the Bible says?

One final thought. The Bible says one of the reasons for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexuality was running rampant. God decided he hated this place so much he would rain down fire and brimstone. The question I have is why has he refrained himself from destroying us? The fire and brimstone episode was not the only reference to God destroying his children for naughty behavior. Why are we not being destroyed now? This is one of my arguments against the existence of God.

  1. Karen King says:

    Hi Tim – I know many people that think the same way your father does. This is a very deep subject of which no one wins, it’s their own beliefs. Many people believe that homosexuality is learned, more so in todays world. I believe it is both, born and learned. As far as God destroying us now, well, it happens everyday to someone. The world is falling apart and more and more people are becoming homeless and loosing their families. It is very sad and I don’t know the answer.

    • Tim Lundmark says:

      The destruction of our society has nothing to do with God. I think there are two more likley candidates for this problem. The first is our loss of morals and the second is we have become a me first society promoting greed over brotherhood.

  2. We agree on this one. You know why the early Israeli tribesman were so against male homosexuality in the first place? Because one of the pair played the role of the female and, in their worldview, females were second-class citizens.

    How could a reasonable person believe in a higher entity who hates women and homosexuals? I certainly don’t think being a female is a learned trait!

  3. corey bratt says:

    I wish I had time for a longer response, but I’ll at least leave you with this: “Hate the sin, Love the sinner.” That is what Jesus taught us- not to hate others, but to hate the sin committed.

  4. kristinherdy says:

    I’m curious as to where in the Bible Jesus said “hate the sin and love the sinner?” I don’t see those words in my Bible.

    I think I must be reading the Bible incorrectly, because I see very few Scriptures about homosexuality and abortion and a ton of Scriptures about regarding the poor, taking care of the afflicted, visiting prisoners and feeding the hungry, but not doing those things isn’t called “sin” by most Americans, it’s called “personal responsibility” by Fox News and their ilk. I certainly understand your frustrations. As a Christian, I have many of the same responses as you do.

    • Tim Lundmark says:

      Welcome to the community. I think the Bible is a great book, with great lessons on how to live your life. The problem comes when MAN misreads or distorts the Word. I wouldn’t say I am anti christian although much of my writting would say otherwise. I am against the extreme. I am against people trying to profit off others fears. There are so many negative things I can say. What I should not leave out are the “good” chriustians like one of my readers Johanna. I have really only been exposed to the extyreme or the twisted so that is what I know.

      • Whoa! It very clearly states in the Book of Leviticus that homosexuality is an abomination before God. So, I don’t see how you could argue that people have misread or distorted “the Word.”

        My position is: Who cares what a bunch of ancient tribesman thought about the issue? It was a patriarchal society that denigrated females. As I wrote above, that is where the objection to male homosexuality originated for them — men “choosing” to play the subservient role of a woman.

      • Tim Lundmark says:

        The flip side to my comment to Kristin is this. Although the Bible has many good lessons (Mostly the New Testiment when Jesus was talking) The Bible is also filled with anger and wraith. Christians are taught to fear God because he is jealous and vengeful. Good call on quoting Leviticus. I still think the lessons are misread. The word can easily be taken out of context, whence why we have extremist. I think a common one is Revelations. Many take this as the future outcome. I am of the belief this book was written to describe the Roman’s of that time and not our future. I think this is a good example of twisting the word. I also think with any religion the people see what they want to see.

  5. ram0singhal says:

    divine….atom is signature of god..understanding atom one can understand God easily…language of computer is 01…because of zero come into existence…timeless soul…because of one….many comes into existence…in time bodies..look at the balance of proton and electrons….and neutron as neutral zero…when transparent soul and non transparent body comes together …one become mirror for cosmic energy …many refer as God….

    as far as gay debate is concerned…..their is a dominant masculine personality both in man and women..similarly their is dominant feminine personality both in man and women…so
    any time attraction happens between masculine and feminine personality….outer body shells may be any…

    breath is God…whether one aware or not is neutral to both atheist and theist equally….

    love all…

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