What do you believe in creationism or evolution? I think the answer to this question will weigh heavily on if you are religious or not. Personally I believe in evolution with a hint of creationism. I think for most people it has to be one or the other but in reality it can be both. I think the religious community is ferocious in defending the stance that we were created by God end of story. They in order to keep their faith have to listen to the Word, and the Word does not say there is evolution. The Bible says in Genesis that everything was created in six days, but does the Bible literally mean six days, or six days to God. If God has been around since the beginning of time I doubt he has the same method of time as we do. We base our time on the rotation of our planet around the sun, I am pretty sure God does not keep human time. I bring this topic up because of an e-mail I received from “God Thoughts Wired” and I was a bit annoyed with the stance pastor Brad was making. I think if we take his example a step further we could back him into a corner and force him to rethink for a moment. Below is part of his e-mail discounting evolution. 

“AN HONEST PURSUIT OF TRUTH
LEADS US TO A CREATOR.”

-Pastor Brad

“Is this really true?  Well, you tell me.  When you honestly ask yourself “How did this chair get here?”  I suggest to you that the logical, reasonable and rational answer is…”Somebody made it.”  Am I right? 

And how ’bout the car you drive, “How did it get here?”  Again, I would suggest that the most logical, reasonable and rational answer is that “Somebody made it.”  Am I right?

The definition of the “scientific method” is, “that which is measurable, repeatable, and observable.  So…

Which is more “scientific,” the belief that human beings are here because “somebody made us?”  Or, is it more “scientific” to think that, “OVER A BAZILLION YEARS…WE JUST CAME TO BE.”

C’mon!””

I laughed at the concept of this e-mail. He uses the example of a chair and a car. He asks his readers to answer the question on how these things came to be. He leads us to the conclusion because the car and the chair were made by someone then scientifically speaking we must have been created by someone. This is an example of the justifications religious people use to try and trick themselves into believing. Using a chair and a car as a scientific method to prove creationism is laughable! I would ask Pastor Brad this; “If we continue to use the scientific method then I ask you who made God?” He would not be able to say God has always been around because his whole point is everything must have been created by something else.  

I believe everything you see here today is a product of evolution. We as humans came to be who we are today because of evolution. Scientists have discovered many different skulls which show proof of evolution. These skulls can be traced from our oldest ancestor the chimpanzee all the way to our current skulls today. My father has always told me there is a missing link they have not found. I ask him this “where are the various different species of humanoids today? The skulls we have found are not ape and not human they are somewhere in-between, yet these sub-humans are no longer around. I think the best proof we can find on evolution is through DNA. It is a fact that our DNA is 96% similar to that of Chimpanzees. This similarity is closer than that of even chimps to gorillas.

Let’s take humans out of the equation and focus on the animal world. There are many different species of rodents. Many of these rodents show very similar DNA some more than others. If we look at where these rodents live we can see evolution within each one of these animals. They had to evolve to adapt in order to survive. These evolutions can take millions of years or a decade to take effect. You cannot deny evolution at work in the animal kingdom. There are countless records of animals evolving in order to survive. Why is it so hard to believe if animals are capable of evolving why we are not a product of evolution?

“Creationists make it sound as though a ‘theory’ is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night.”
Isaac Asimov

The thing I find funny is isn’t creationism a theory as well. According to the creationist this concept is not a theory but is indeed a fact. I laugh at this concept because there is no one alive, nor is there any scientific fact which points towards creationism. These individuals are getting their facts from a book which may or may not have been the Word of God. From my knowledge I think science has done a great job of moving forward to prove evolution is indeed a scientific fact.

I don’t know why religion has fought so hard against science only to be destroyed by it time and time again. When evolution is finally proven as a scientific fact then religion will have no choice but to accept this and move on. I think even with a fact starring them in the face some will still deny the truth, others will see that the Bible preached evolution all this time. The thing is this; evolution is a scientific fact. It cannot be denied. This is why I believe in evolution because it is tangible. It is so much easier to believe in this as opposed to a mystical puppeteer in the sky.

In the book “The Genesis Flood” it argues that creation was only six days and humans lived concurrently with the dinosaurs and that God created each kind of living being individually. I am not sure if this is actually in the Bible, or if this is one interpretation of the story. I know my dad and I will get into a heated debate when the conversation of evolution comes up. He becomes threatened and defends his beliefs tooth and nail. He tells me that scientists have all but agreed evolution is impossible because they have never found the missing link. I do not take very much stock in what he says because his main source of knowledge comes from FOX news and his religious and right wing political magazines. What I don’t understand is why Christianity can’t just get along with facts? I am sure if you comb through the Bible you can find a few verses that goes along with evolution. Religion could not argue the fact that we rotate around the sun, no matter how hard they tried, and before long they won’t be able to argue themselves out of the facts of evolution.

I will never have the answers to all the questions I have. My interpretation on how things went down is this. The 25th verse of the Tao Te Ching says “There was something formless and perfect before the universe was born.”  To me this explains pre-big bang. For whatever reason this formless and perfect energy erupted and the Tao gave birth to the universe. In the 4th verse of the Tao Te Ching it says “I do not know who gave birth to it. It seems to be the common ancestor of all; it is more ancient than God.” I think in giving birth to the universe Gods were created just as we humans were created. I guess this is what I think.

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Comments
  1. Johanna says:

    I agree that God is not constrained by time as we know it. God spoke figuratively and literally in the bible and I believe the 7 days of creation are figurative. He specified what he created and in what order, not a particular time frame. As a Catholic, all we are bound to believe is that however creation happened, it was ordained by God.

    • Tim Lundmark says:

      Johanna,

      I think I would be more receptive to this religion if it embraced science and faith. For centuries these two concepts seem to clash. We are a product of genetic mutation and evolution. Where things get hard between these two is the Adam and Eve story. This concept is not open for debate. I think many of the stories in the Bible are not litteral. I think these stories were pased down from generation to generation. Now this could be a product of God. Perhaps in these stories is the wisdom we all seek.

  2. Evolution is not an absolute fact; it is a theory. Creationism isn’t a theory, it is a belief.

    I am far more apt to accept the relative truth of a scientific theory than a belief of ancient nomadic tribesman who thought the world was flat and that disease was caused by demons.

    As to the silly notion that the six days in Genesis aren’t actually 6 24-hour periods, why don’t Christians apply this creative mathematics to other portions of their beliefs? For example, it said that Jesus rose 3 days after crucifixion. Does that mean 3 24-hour days OR is it three days of God’s “beyond human comprehension” time?

    Of course, they will tell you it’s 3 24-hour days. They have to tweak the formula for Genesis simply because it doesn’t add up.

  3. renxkyoko says:

    Tim, the Pope ( not sure if it was Pope John ) said he had no problem with the 7 day creationism theory being not 7 days, but based on God’s ” time”, and that included the idea that it could be thru evolution.

  4. Johanna says:

    Catholics are not bound to believe any of the old testament stories are literal. We are only to understand the basic truths contained within. For example, with Adam and Eve, we only need to understand that humans sinned and turned away from God. In addition, the Church makes no claims on scientific evidence. The Church only states that God created the world from nothing. It makes no statements on HOW that might have happened.

    • Why not? Where in the bible itself does it explicitly state that old testament stories are not to be taken literally?

      For the most part, I think fundamentalist Christians are off their rockers, but I do given them half-credit for one thing: They take the bible as it presents itself. (They get half-credit because they do this unevenly.)

      The Bible says it is the logos, the first word. Why would a god dictate a document with very explicit descriptions and directions, then expect people to know intuitively which parts were to be taken literally and which parts were to be taken figuratively?

      That would appear to be a recipe for disaster…sort of like the hundreds of different versions of Christianity.

      • brendamarroy says:

        If the bible is the word of god, I keep wondering why god stopped speaking. why doesn’t he keep on dicating more new and updated material? Why aren’t there sequels? Bah, humbug.

      • Tim Lundmark says:

        Brenda,

        The point about God not being involved in our lives now is a huge point I make when arguing against religion. In the Bible God is so active in everyones lives, but what has he done in the last thousand years? Why is he not speaking to us today?

  5. Johanna says:

    Rambling, like I said, it doesnt really matter if the stories are literal or figurative. The truth to be taken is the same. There’s no need to make a statement either way.
    The bible uses different styles of writing to get certain points across. Jesus used the parable method several times in order to convey a message.
    Really, I don’t want to have a huge argument/discussion. I was just stating what Catholics actually believe. You certainly don’t have to agree with it. Sometimes Catholics get a bad rap and I was just trying to clarify what we believe.

    • With all due respect, it DOES make a difference whether stories in the bible are taken literally or figuratively. If, for example, a person believes that the world was created in 6 24-hours then such a belief PRECLUDES the acceptance of the theory of evolution.

      Here’s a question for you: Would you consider someone to be a Christian IF they interpreted the crucifixion and resurrection as a figurative (didn’t really happen) event?

  6. Johanna says:

    The crucifixion cannot be figurative because it is historical.

    • It is historical SOLELY as reported in the bible itself. There is no independent corroboration of this supernatural event.

      For that matter, the 6 24-hour day creation story is historical based on the very same reasoning.

      So, how do justify viewing one of these stories as literal and historical, but not the other? What is your criteria for making this differentiation?

  7. Johanna says:

    I just ran across this quote: “Let your religion be less of a theory and more of a love affair” -GK Chesterton
    Honestly, we can argue till the end of time. I don’t think the details of what we believe are as important as the act of loving one another. Can’t we agree to disagree and just get on with the business of caring for others?

    • But Johanna, the details ARE important. Those details cause some people to hate gays and lesbians. Those details cause some people to deny rights to Blacks, Indians, Latinos and Muslims. Those details cause many to believe it is okay to murder abortion providers or any infidel who doesn’t believe precisely what your group believes.

      The devil, as they say, are IN the details.

  8. Johanna says:

    It absolutely can be simple. You are right. The devil is in the details. Details create wars and division. None of the things you mentioned involves loving one another.

    • What does that TRULY mean? Yes, it sounds nice to say “just love everybody,” but love means different things to different people at different times.

      There have been news items in recent years that discuss how a parent or spouse LOVED their children and/or spouse sooo much that they murdered them so they wouldn’t have to live in this evil world.

      When a significant person in your life engages in abusive behavior (to self or others), sometimes the best medicine is what people refer to as “tough love,” turning away from them.

      Some people believe that love means giving loved ones whatever they want whenever they want it.

      My point here is that your statement re love is multi-layered and complicated. It’s not quite as easy as you make it out to be.

    • Tim Lundmark says:

      Johanna & Trey,

      I love it when you guys go back and forth. To be honest with you the discussions you and everyone else has is by far better than the post itself. It is amazing the tug I feel between faith and logic. Between hope and reality. You guys truly assist me in trying to find the path leading to the answers I seek.

  9. DP says:

    No epic wisdom from space today. At the end of the day, who knows?

    DPSPACEMAN, OUT.

  10. Hey Tim,
    Didn’t you get the latest memo? Glenn Beck is God’s current mouthpiece. 😀

  11. renxkyoko says:

    My bottomline is… I just close my eyes, ears and mouth, and believe…. a leap of faith, I know. There’s just one thing I’m sure of, Genesis didn’t happen 7000 years ago. One time, my little cousin asked me, ” Auntie, did the dinosaurs and the people back then live together? “

  12. Johanna says:

    Rambling, as for the question of love, I turn to 1 Corinthians13. It is the most beautiful description of love I have ever heard…If i have all faith, so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have…but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, and endures all things. Love never ends.

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